NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. No doubt in my mind it was. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. How far were you from this cat. John you're on the air. So it's there was no question in my mind. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. One was in Shelton. There are corollaries in other states. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Well thanks for sharing. She is renowned for tracking. John. Patrick Tate: Okay. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . Peter Biello: Mm hmm. New Hampshire Public Radio | We'll hear from her periodically through the show. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Well they are the same. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. Sam Evans Brown. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Yes. 44-H Links. No I saw a camel. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Good morning guys. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. N.H. What's going on. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Peter Biello: Well yeah. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Mountain lion or cat running across. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. They just end up in these places. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. The report came in from a conservation officer. Peter Biello: Ok. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. And so. Caller: Yeah. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. I found a second scat scent both to him. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. I didn't see him online. John is calling from Bennington. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Thank you very much for listening. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. And it was unmistakable. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. We had six copies printed out each. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. And they were using all the habitat. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. I'll send it to you. No that's a little bit outside the range. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. 19 We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Less successful males roam further. It's good to talk to you. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. We're not in the woods. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. On a dirt road. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. We'll push great photos to the front page. He said matter of fact I do.
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