king does not stand up for you. I suspect that process would take a bit longer with Driscoll hes a bigger mess. We will definitely check it out. As far as people moving into ministry later in life, one would hope they had left that life behind and were new creations in Christ. You have a holy responsibility to lead your flock in truth and light yet you are deliberately misleading them. ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. . I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. They knew exactly what they were buying. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, and that other pastor has a history of patterns of behavior and teachings that are destructive it is wise to ask pastor 1 if he has checked him out before he promotes him. Im honored that Marks here so I dont want anybody reading what Im saying as some kind of disclaimer or apology. sheep are watching and wolves coming. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas services. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. You cant speak in tongues? His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. (glorifies paul. He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. in prison. Eye Hath Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard What He hath prepared for those who love Him?. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. mark is finally preaching more accurately who Jesus is and the fact that salvation is found in Jesus but then he goes off into marks interpretation of the bible as usual. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious. . Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. I felt like an idiot after I said that. I hope more will speak up in the future. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. The kid starts expecting it. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. He lives in the Show Me State, so go ahead and show me. Great insight. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 love to hear that sermon. If so you may be onto something. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. Active homosexuals will not make it into heaven, Lindell said in the sermon. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. But. it is so sad it breaks my heart. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. Lets see. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? Pews are in the old megas. Whenever I hear Mark Driscolls name, a passage keeps popping in my mind Beware of Alexander the coppersmith he has done us much harm. Driscoll and his potty-mouth preaching made an everlasting mark on 21st century church in America. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. The text is not prescriptive. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. Posted by NancyAlcorn at 1:06 PM 2 comments. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? In February 2008, less than two months after his promise not to abandon our orphans, we received a letter from Scott Thomas. The Lord had more to say about gall through His servant Jeremiah: Jeremiah 23:13-17 What I did not know, was that Jamie Munson and Scott Thomas had called Marc Fulmer, who leads Agathos to this day, and threatened to pull support unless I resigned from Agathos and Mars Hill Church took it over and re-branded the ministry as a Mars Hill ministry. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. I would hope we should higher standards than that. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. His Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills and Jesus never asked a single person for a single penny. It is affiliated with Assemblies of God USA. Love, (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. I believe that.' When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father, but through Me -Jesus, all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!. A cult expert I spoke at length with said it may be harder to find the right one, but a smaller church is the way to go. An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. But we rarely hear about that. Dont you want to be a part of that? In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. Totally. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed . And the honest churches will know that most of the allegations are true and will be too ashamed to say anything. That would be terrible. It is identical to another certain entertainment industry where faking it means everything and in my opinion the industry representing the older profession is less offensive. everything that happened at the cross was prophesied about long before Jesus was crucified, one propesy: Psalm 69:20-21 Mark Driscoll, thepreacher who stepped down from his Seattle megachurch in October 2014after being accusedof plagiarism, bullying and an unhealthy ego has beentrying to returnto some kind of speaking tourat Christian conferences. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. Just show-biz. 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. All he has to do is say "I repent" and it has to be forgiven and forgotten or we are the meanies. Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. ATB What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. Membership Covenants But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. How can they do that? Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. Pouring what, exactly? He was an abusing thug. )(mark is apparently not impressed with peter baptizing 3,000 followers in one day cause peter isnt able to be made into a complementarian I guess), interestingly mark points out how stephen handled it but not how mark handled slight persecution which was actually not persecution but truth leveled against him) They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. since we are all clergy??? Lydia wrote: Join us for life-giving worship, encouraging stories and testimonies, and a powerful message from Pastor John. Please call upon Jesus today, you will be very glad you did! ". He needs to clean up the mess that he made. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. He is listening for your litl sweet voice! I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. kings sit. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. @ numo: Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. Lindell then got personal with me. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. Some great insights there, Bob. After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. "Nor is it outside the parameters of a gospel ministry. In my opinion Gateway is a cult not a church so they lose their Winters Bone protection status. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. Bob, I loved your comment. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. Its much harder to leave that way. pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. he (stephen) probably had a ministry, forgiving means you transfer judgment to Jesus, thats what he does, (stephen transfers it to jesus to judge paul), words fail me, but a wrote a bunch which should be up soon lol, i tweeted: The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). One of six. i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. Albuquerque Blue wrote: Its all good until (insert question or issue). Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? I gave Lindell a chance to respond to that tally. Yep. And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. So, where are the reasonable people? Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious? Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. @ Bob M: What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Open Discussion Page. . Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4d131547-f913-5d43-bfc5-5a292f4c27e1.html, What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. I want to know how I was deceived. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. Its meant only to address the deception of certain megas. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry, I dont know why I wrote that, Ive always thought of you as a him. Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. Some guys I knew in Tucson called this shining the Stupid Ray on people.. So many damaged lives. I said some decent things, but one can and probably ought to take that with a grain of salt. This is not a measure of faith. I dont think theres been any repentance at all. The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. Totally. None of them see anything wrong with this. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. I am also pretty sure the accounts of his instrumental role in bringing Russian nuclear-armed ballistic missiles to Cuba to be used against the US were not purely fabricated, so I did not believe I was disseminating false information at the time I wrote that. They are described as brilliant. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. I tend to doubt it but who knows. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. Have you noticed the more scandals from some thugs they actually become more popular? But the attempt was cut short Sunday when Hillsong, one of the most influential international megachurches, cut him from the speaker list at its upcoming conferences in the United Kingdom and in Australia. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. I know people who were previously baptized that jumped in to get the swag. I dont think he is qualified to lead any church or ministry of any size until he exhibits the fruit of the Spirit for a long, long time. I think MDs desire to be on a stage, at this point, is a sure sign he should not be there. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? There was a box for Guest Services. James River Church Reverend John E Lindell. Prayer Requests I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. I just do not understand this focus on hoping Christians leaders will actually and finally act like Christians when everything they have been involved with and built looks nothing like Jesus Christ. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. Southern Missouri . and humility i think is something that is a mark of a true christian that cant be faked, it always looks fake when people try to do that. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. Connect With Us! 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. Nancy Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. in the first years of the organinazation they didnt do anything without consensus because they believed that if they were a group of believers the Lord would make them of the same agreement on specific issues and if they didnt reach agreement there was a reason that needed to be looked at. I just took a year of online classes at one of them. Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. I would say he was a tyrannical charlatan that used people for his own purposes and claiming it was of Christ. Steven Reed, Stephens' opponent, had an easier time answering. To tell, perhaps? James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. . However, with such a massive back door spanning 15 years, I still think more exiles should be speaking up for the good of the current and future naives. I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Ill talk to you more tomorrow, so dont forget to check back! I have heard Driscoll in person.. So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. LT wrote: Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). some have suffered unjustly. But it would be encouraging if they did. "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. No. Meanwhile, Mark Driscoll was preparing to deliver his sermon at James River Church, an Assemblies of God megachurch located in the "Show Me State" (Missouri). It was just a matter of time before New Calvinism found a way to resurrect its leading icon. Some scholars put his time in Tarsus as much as 7 years and might be when he took up tentmaking since he was cut off from the rabbincial living. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. Why should we be surprised? Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? Where David cut the fabric from Sauls garment in the cave, showing he could have killed Saul but didnt, reflects Gods desire that David not physically harm Saul. The carpet was worn. Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. stephen is suffering for doing right. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. LOL! forgiveness means its paid in full. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? It was like my eyes were open. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. He explained that wide is the path refers mainly to churches posing as Christian churches (mostly for millions in profit like GW) not the fringe Christian-like churches or belief systems (like LDS).